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by BeStrong from Kansas City

Last Post 2 days, 21 hours Ago


Underminding The Constitution
Apr 27, 2008 | 11:22 AM
Category: Political
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The U.S. Constitution is a secular document. It begins, "We the people," and contains no mention of "God" or "Christianity." Its only refers to religion are exclusionary, such as, "no religious shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust", and "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".  The separation of church and state is a wonderful thing. It keeps the majority from pressuring the minority. What if any religion had the right to impose thier views on all? America wouldn't be America! It would be a horrible place if the majority held the divine right to tyrannize the minority on matters of religion.

Many state the Constitution came from the ten commandments. Not so. Many cultures long before the commandments did not believe in homicide or to lie. It is a fact many fail to realize. If Americans honored the commandment against coveting, free enterprise would collapse! Think about that. I think it is the conservatives who advocate free trade who are also majorly Christian. Interesting!

The Declaration of Independence purpose was to deal with laws, taxation, representation, war, immigration, and so on. Its authority is based on the idea that our government is made up of men, supposedly getting their power from the consent of the people which is contrary to the biblical concept of rule by divine right. The statements to Nature's God, Creator, and Divine Providence in the Declaration doen't endorse Christianity. Thomas Jefferson the author was a deist opposed to Christianity and the supernatural.

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Member Comments Total Comments: 14
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Chief-Ironhorse74 read my blog
Apr 27, 2008 | 9:03 PM

BeStrong,huh? It doesn't sound like you any fiber of strong, in your being,madam! It is a historical fact, that out of the 55 men who formed the Constitution,52 were active members of their respective churches. Out of the Bible,is indeed, where they got the foundations and principals, to form this country. Thomas Jefferson was indeed one of those men! James Madison said,"You can't have national moral apart from religeous principal!" The Constitution gives us the freedom of religion, not freedom from it! You have the right not to worship or believe in God. And that is your choice. But you are in the extreme minority,madam!
I'm curious! What are your solutions to todays problems,here in this country, and afar?
Why do you seem so opposed to God being in the public eye?
And,would you ever dare to step into a Hindu,Buhdist,or Muslim country, and try to take their religeous beliefs out of their public eye?
Be careful how you approach my questions, my liberal one! I have indisputable answers, to shoot down any foolish,liberal rhetoric, you may flap from your gums!
My suggestion to you is, move to one of these aforementioned countries, and then try the same athiest tactics. I would be willing to bet , that your views would change dramatically, and that you would be thanking Jesus for your safe return!
I await your answers!
~~~Chief Ironhorse~~~
open_eyed_liberal read my blog
Apr 27, 2008 | 9:15 PM

BeStrong, I thought this was a very nice post.

I fail to see, if the founders really were so one-sided in their religious preferences, why it is not in the constitution? It seems to me they were attemting to create a country where people were able to worship as they see fit. After the repression of the Church of England, why would they want the same system here? No, it seems BeStrong is right, as were the founders.

"...my liberal one!"
I see BeStrong as more of a Libertarian than a liberal, but that is just me.
BeStrong read my blog view my photos
Apr 27, 2008 | 9:44 PM

I am not liberal. I represent a historical view of how the constitution was written. Oh, Madison happens to be my favorite founding fathers. Please understand he led the fight for equality of all religions. Display absolute fact of Thomas Jeffersons religion and that of ANY mention of religion in the Constitution other than the abilty to pratice the religion of your own. Shoot me down, Chief. I will accept your views and consider them, however I will be armed as well.

As far as me going to another country, the blood of my family and many other great men and women have granted me the right to voice my opinion. I have only stated facts of religious tolerance in this great nation. One in which you seem to undermind.

Look up ancient cultures where Jesus was not yet introduced and find how they lived.

One step more, I happen to be Christian. I also just so happen to believe in tolerance. Tolerance and humility is what my God means to me.
BeStrong read my blog view my photos
Apr 27, 2008 | 9:58 PM

Chief, whats your solutions for our country?

You asked me, but prior to me answering, i fully want to understand which problem and how religion plays a role.
Chief-Ironhorse74 read my blog
Apr 27, 2008 | 10:32 PM

You sound like you are Unitarian. Of which, doesn't surprise me by your answers. Or lack thereof!
You avoided my questions to you ,almost entirely.
And I wasn't speaking to your relatives, I was speaking to you! What about my questions to you?
And freedom of choice, is what God has offered, since the beginning of time.
If you read my post, you would see that I posed a question to you about you moving to another country,and trying your same tactics there. If anything, I wasn't undermining anyone's freedom to worship or not!
As far as ancient cultures,who lived without God,lets look at Sodom and Gomorrah! God destroyed them! They took God out of every equation of their lives, and it cost them theirs! The fact that these two civilizations existed, is a HISTORICAL FACT!!!
If you truly believe in God, and are a Christian,as you say,then why would you want to take God out of the public eye? Are you truly a Christian? Or are you as the Bible mentions, in Revelations, as"Believes in God, but denies the power thereof?"
As far as blood being spilled,my relatives have spilled more blood than any other culture for this country! Maybe more than yours!
So....what about the questions I posed to you? Are you going to continue to dance around them?
~~~Chief Ironhorse~~~
BeStrong read my blog view my photos
Apr 27, 2008 | 11:10 PM

Chief, i would like to point out i am half black foot. i choose not tote the phrase native american. i am american. do not tell me about the blood shed, i have learned and forgiven. What blood or war have you seen? Dont critize and demand answers if your own blood has not been spilled. Jistol3 has that right on this blog. (and any others valient enough hold that title)

God has given me free will. What would I do if i moved to another country? Respect their culture. I have been oversees and never had a problem. For our country= Vote third party. Get the hel! out of iraq, secure our borders, focus on the economy, keep a keen eye on syria, iran, nk, china, rebuild the military, give freedoms back to Americans, put more money into our children, ect.... its easy to be a sideline president.

Ancient cultures have been discovered as late as 1974. They did not know of Jesus but they survived.

Tiptoe, me? i asked for clarification. what happened to asking you my questions? tad hyprocritical? where is the arsenal? no facts only opinion. Never once have I stated keep God out of the public eye, if I did refer me please. I have simply placed facts you can not dispute. When you get upset and brash please ask wwjd. i dont know what religion you follow, but the white man introduced christianity to the native culture and was fine up until then. See this is what happens when Jesus is left out of the Constitution.
Chief-Ironhorse74 read my blog
Apr 27, 2008 | 11:11 PM

You have got me curious. I have read your blogs, and wonder what your purpose is in writing this one? I seem to agree with everyone of your blogs,except this one!
There are so many problems plagueing this country,BeStrong. You are probably expecting me to say,God is the answer to this country's problems. And you are right, if you did expect it.
God has been taken out of so many aspects of our lives. Look what happened after prayer got taken out of schools! Yeah, we had problems. But not like today! The Bible provides a solid foundation for man to live by. If you know End Time prophecy, one of the things that the Bible predicts, is children being out of control. And why? Government imposed it's strong armed morality. It took the few whines from the minority, and punished what the majority wanted!
God wants us to succeed, but there have to be rules to live by. And taking God out of the public eye, in my view,is a mistake! You do that, you take the backbone of our being ,out! And that continues to happen, as we debate this!
I would still want you to answer my questions to you, if you don't mind. So that I can understand you,as well!
~~~Chief Ironhorse~~~
BeStrong read my blog view my photos
Apr 28, 2008 | 8:03 AM

to be honest i deleted one of my own responses to you. after re-reading your post this am, i think my answer was inappropriate and a little rude.

I wrote this blog to explore the history behind the writing of the Contitution. Like I stated earlier, I accept your views and would have responded differently if you didnt jump right in with the name calling.

God being the answer to our national and global problems, we as Christians may think so, but in the end with the great diverstity of religions in the world, may cause more problems. We know how defensive people become about their religions.

End of time prophecy- I refuse to tackle on this blog.

I have not stated I want God out of the public eye. I do not see how I am underminding Religion in my statements in this blog. I am not trying to take the backbone out of people. This is MY opinion of how the Constitution came about. Its debatable.

I have also thought about you asking me to go another country and try my tactics there. My answer is the founding fathers recognized tolerance. Why should I go else where and write about the Constitution? See that is why America is great. We have the ability to voice opinion without fear of persecution. To be fair, you have written about the justice system in a manner that some countries would not tolerate. Correct me, but to me this seems to be a double standard.
twistersister read my blog view my photos
Apr 28, 2008 | 8:43 AM

Ok, let me play.=)My disclaimer, before anyone starts throwing Phariseutical stones is that I love God and I try my best to live by the words of Christ whom said,"I desire mercy rather than sacrifice"
First of all, I do believe man "can" have morals and sound thinking with out a "religious" mindset...I believe we were created with it instilled in us...the ability to choose right paths and act right" or "resist right thinking and live in error" There was diversity in the hearts of the men who drafted the documents to help form this nation, and that diversity transcends time and represents the very hearts beating today.
In this nation, we have people who are today's Jeffersons, Franklins Adams.....
We all strive to give the nation's people freedom's to live how they want to so long as it does not rob the rights of others or prohibit them from doing so...
There are laws made to protect rights and laws made to protect man, which have become among the greatest controversy in modern times...
Why?
Why is that?
When the very fabric of our nation was built on diversity so that NO ONE person, ideal, religion, mindset would over rule the people's right to exercise their living free from dominance and ridicule.
So why is it that we are insisting that freedom from religion is not within the rights protected?
Chief-Ironhorse74 read my blog
Apr 28, 2008 | 6:45 PM

BeStrong,
First and foremost, my relationship with Jesus, has also taught me humility. I re-read your blog, and agree with most of it. I humblely apologise for the name calling. That was very wrong of me to do. Jesus never blatenly called names,and I am truly sorry for that!
To be honest, I was on late lastnight,when I came across your blog,and was very tired. I was also angry over a private matter, and really wasn't thinking,before I opened my mouth!(Lol) I usually,think before I act. I also just skimmed across what you wrote, and thought you were another one of those intrusive, disrespectful,athiests! I sould've took the time to read it all the way through,before I responded! Take note! I don't apologise too often, but when I'm wrong,I'm wrong!
The Constitution is a secular document, written by man, and therefore, is very flawed.
But where I will continue to strongly disagree with you is, as I had said before,it was written,with a Biblical influence. Freedom of choice, has been bestowed upon us, by God,to choose to worship him or not. That freedom is in our Constitution,true. But I do not believe that the Constitution speaks of Seperation of Church and State.
I will just say that we can go back and forth on this,or just agree to disagree! Judgeing from the few emails, I really don't think that either one of us, is going to budge on that!
I am also American Indian. Apache,Snohomish, and Aztec. I attained a copy of Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee,after my Dad passed away recently .I am also of Mexican decent.
I too,have been overseas. Very intersting over the
BeStrong read my blog view my photos
Apr 29, 2008 | 2:07 PM

I understand, Chief. I too was up late and tired. I apologize also.
Chief-Ironhorse74 read my blog
Apr 29, 2008 | 6:38 PM

God Bless You,Miss BeStrong!
~~~Chief Ironhorse~~~
gimini210 read my blog view my photos
May 1, 2008 | 5:50 PM

Ahh but when you read the whole Declaration you come to the part where they are, "appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world", and I do not thing they were refering to a man.
Biker-Terry read my blog view my photos
May 12, 2008 | 8:05 AM

I think that maybe, and I might be wrong here, but even though some (and I meen some) of the signers of the delaration and the constitution were men who professed attending one church or another, they did NOT want to see history repeat itself.
What am I talking about? Remember the (Early) Middle Ages in Western Europe when governments and people lived in fear of the Catholic church? and then later when England was ruled by the Curch of England? It's all in the history books.

Peace.
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BeStrong

Anyone who knows history, particularly the history of Europe, will, I think, recognize that the domination of education or of government by any one particular religious faith is never a happy arrangement for the people. Eleanor Roosevelt Anyone who thinks must think of the next war as they would of suicide. Eleanor Roosevelt In the long run, we shape our lives, and we shape ourselves. The process never ends until we die. And the choices we make are ultimately our own responsibility. Eleanor Roosevelt

Member Since: 4/4/2008


 

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