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by jfore

Last Post 11 hours Ago


A report that came out of England recently destroys the love affair that our tree hugging friends are having with biofuels. Aside from the fact that biofuels require burning some sort of fuel to produce, require fuel to grow, and only supply 75% of the power of gasoline, it seems that biofuels made from corn or rapeseed, like E-85, produce 50% to 70% more greenhouse gasses than fuels made from petroleum oil. Scientists in the U.K, Germany and the United States have found that Ethanol and biodiesel fuels release 50% more nitrous-oxide into the atmosphere than was originally thought.

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By the way. It we were to convert entirely to biofuels we would use up every bit of corn produced in the world. What do you think that would do to the food industry?

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Why? Because they didn’t anticipate that as much as 5% of the nitrogen that the plant absorbed from the soil is converted in nitrous-oxides and released into the atmosphere when that fuel is burned. So this is just one more case of the kooks going off half cocked over something in spite of the fact that we haven’t done enough to see if it will work.

We need to be careful not to go off half cocked when these kooks start pushing something because, more often than not, they’re wrong. We know now that DDT is perfectly safe when used properly. But millions of people are dead today from malaria that DDT could have prevented. We know now that the spotted owl was never endangered, but we still destroyed the logging industry in that area. We listened to them and stopped thinning out forests and now we’re plagued by giant forest fires every year. We spent billions of dollars eliminating Freon from our air conditioners and aerosols because the kooks said we were destroying the ozone layer. But a report came out last month that said we know now that Freon has no effect at all on the ozone layer. The kooks have been telling us that our seafood has mercury in it and we’re all going to die. Just last week a report came out from the U.S. Government recommending people eat seafood because they have found no danger from mercury. In fact, they said that the mercury danger was HYPOTHETICAL. And let’s not forget the Alar scare that almost destroyed the fruit industry a few years ago even though we now know that Alar is perfectly safe.

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The sad part is, our legislators listen to these people. I remember how Congress was badgered into forcing automakers into installing air bags in every car because the kooks insisted that we’d all be safer. The automakers told them that the technology wasn’t ready yet. But the kooks insisted that they were evil corporations and couldn’t be telling the truth. We ended up killing hundreds of young children as a result. The automakers were right after all. The kooks insisted on putting heavier rear bumpers on trucks so that cars wouldn’t run under the truck in a read end collision. The truckers said it wouldn’t work. But they’re evil corporations. What do they know? Turned out the bumpers were so heavy that deaths went up. The bodies were just a little neater.

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So pardon me if I get skeptical when the kooks start telling me that I need to start putting alcohol in my car. Alcohol is best used on the rocks with an olive in it.

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Abunai read my blog view my photos
Oct 6, 2007 | 3:24 AM

Well ya know... by the time the enviromental nuts figure out how then have been manipulated by guys like Gore we will once again be full circle and Global Cooling will be back like it was in the 70s!

A huge debate in my PoliSci class in Boulder, Colorado! The price of corn went through the roof, and then people wanted to bring back the 55MPH speed limit!

I had to break out my engineering head to explain that at 70 to 75MPH most cars now are doing less than 2000RPMs. That its not how fast you go, but how fast your engine runs, burning that fuel! Instead of buring E85, all we need to do is require taller gears!!! ZERO impact on ecomony, size, or fuel issues!

(too much for a Boulder hippy to digest at once.. trust me...)

northton read my blog view my photos
Oct 6, 2007 | 5:39 AM

I totally agree that alcohol belongs in a glass.

Doesn't the white house support E85 over other, cleaner, alternative energy sources?

Where is the big money for solar and wind?
And since when do you guys care about the environment?

northton read my blog view my photos
Oct 6, 2007 | 5:40 AM

You are right. Bush is a kook.

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Oct 6, 2007 | 7:06 AM

Funny... most that complain about Bush with such ambigeous statments seem to be considered "kooks."

Enviromental nuts who DEMAND you listen to their evidence, yet unwilling to debate any evidence to the latter.

E85 raises the price of corn and yet with all the support thus far, nobody seems to want to plant enough of it to keep prices down... Govt. subsidies to farmers continues? Paid to not plant? Come on now!!

All these folks that like to use the buzz word "cleaner, alternatives" yet haven't a clue to why we don't have windmills? One reason is because other enviromentalist have forced entire wind farms to be turned off because birds are being killed! Meanwhile after the stop the windmill ralley they drive home to see the traps set on the side of the road to capture/kill all the praire dogs in their neighborhoods? Can anyone say... NO CORE VALUES?

All the enviromental fuss on warming for less than a single degree of average temp? Yet when you ask what the baseline median temp is supposed to be, nobody can answer?

Oh yes.. there are kooks out there... some need only glance in the mirror to see one!

RNC08 read my blog view my photos
Oct 6, 2007 | 7:57 AM

O my where do I begin , to bad you don't give a link to the actual story / report. It contains a number of deliberate mis statements . Most objectionable is the idea that nitrogen is present in R85 and becomes nitrous oxide (let alone the fact that NO was never considered a pollutant before LOL) this little date trick is an easy one by putting bio diesel and alcohol based fuels in the same statement your are able to ignore the fact that Bio diesel is based on cooking oil and in fact has nitrogen added to it , so while it may be true that “BD” produces the non-pollutant NO it is not even remotely true of E85.
My next major objection is the presentation of the idea that gasoline does not require any “energy” to produce...it is pumped out of the ground , transported to a refinery and then must be “cooked” to produce gas...it takes as much energy to produce a gallon of gas as it does to produce a gallon of ethanol . Next we have the “corn” problem that people keep bringing up , fact is alcohol can be produced from any organic material (soilent -fuel, its people LOL) but seriously all forms of “farm was” and yard wast can be used to produce this CLEAN fuel...and its renewable.

RNC08 read my blog view my photos
Oct 6, 2007 | 8:02 AM

Two things Northton , 1 what “clean” fuel are you babbling about ? What in the world is out there that can replace gas??? and 2 Other than your deep communist beliefs where do you get off calling President Bush a “kook” ? His record out paces that of Clinton and Carter in every category hands down.
You are a joke , you support “green solutions” but only when they are being promoted by liberals! Your priority is clear ...a “welfare based” economy with the state owning everything and handing it out to people who don't feel like working for it.

northton read my blog view my photos
Oct 6, 2007 | 11:00 AM

LOL

I would just rather spend less on E-85 and more on solar and wind. What's wrong with that?

northton read my blog view my photos
Oct 6, 2007 | 2:05 PM

Bush is a kook!

ramkrm1947 read my blog
Oct 6, 2007 | 4:34 PM

I think we should go back to the good old days, put that lead back in th gas, member when you could get that 100 octane gas! What are we gonna do to eat when they use up all our food to make that there bio stuff, will probly starve to death.
DDT is good for them plants it keep the bug away and it don't hurt people, anyways if you wash it real good its o.k., and those trees need to be cut down so we can build stuff like houses and barn ect. that fish stuff about mercury, I knew that was a bunch a crap cuss how is anybody gonna get mercury in a fish anyhow? that freon law was made up because the goverment owns the new freon plant, but won't admit it! What is it about them air bags? I liked it better when you did't have to have ANY damn seat belts at all, you ware a selt belt you nothing but a P****! Just who do they think they are making me put heavy bumbers on my truck, what about all the gas mileage I loose cus of them heavy bumbers, damn bunch a tree huggers, another thing that there global warming is crap, everybody know that the ice melt all the time so to fill up the oceans, rain gos in there and that dont hirt nothing.

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Oct 6, 2007 | 4:56 PM

How cute... BTW seems that DDT was not making egg shells thinner afterall!! Turns out that science was debunked last year!

Hmmm.. and funny how Freon 14 (used exclusively by the Chinese now) was banned for its eating of the Ozone layer right about the same time the exclusive rights to Dupont was going to expire, and low and behold, guess who had the new industry standard freon 22 standing by!...... Now we find even CO2 was not a problem, and its Nitrous Oxide instead? Hmmmmm..
I sort of like my 66 Ford F100 pick-up with its full size bumpers!! Matter of fact my truck alone has three certified kills! (silly toyota tried to run the red light and all...)
They buried those folks, and I was off to the junkyard to get another bumper... Found a nice pretty one off a 1970 truck too!

ramkrm1947 read my blog
Oct 6, 2007 | 6:50 PM

You know what they say, BIG TRUCK, SMALL D**K!!

jfore read my blog
Oct 6, 2007 | 8:03 PM

Abunai, I see you discovered Dupont's secret.

RNC08 read my blog view my photos
Oct 7, 2007 | 10:06 AM

Spend more of what on Solar ? More taxes ? More time ? What exactly are you spending and to archive what goal ? I want for you to tell me what “clean energy” can directly replace oil ...can solar do this ? Can wind power ever replace oil? Do you have a “plan” to make ether one of them self supporting like E-85 is able to be after an initial start up cost ?
Are you trying to tell me that if only “Bush” was not stopping you your car would have a solar panel on the roof and a beanie hat sized propeller as its only means of fuel ???? Man the “60'S” where hard on you!
One more thing (to the top of the post) why is laughing gas now considered a “pollutant” and if this administration was not attempting to implement a plan including E-85 would this substance that you can buy without a license and that your dentist will pump into your lungs directly with out fear of any harm still be a problem?.......

RNC08 read my blog view my photos
Oct 7, 2007 | 10:09 AM

...fact is IF President Al Gore wanted to help install E85 distribution networks nation wide (as a part of the energy plan that he never developed) there would be no out cry against it !
Just watch and see if Hitlary Clintoon gets in and if Demonrats have not completely forgotten all about the “environment” a Democrat sponsored push for E-85 will be very popular ....with the same idiots that now oppose it!

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Oct 7, 2007 | 11:21 AM

I'm waiting for the E-85 debate to have Farm Subsidies attached to it! I think its ridiculous for us and others like even Mexico to have to deal with price hikes on corn products because E-85 puts increases a demand. There are so many different types of corn in so many markets. Why are we still paying farmers not to plant then?

I have a feeling this debate will to into the same pile as Social Security does...

northton read my blog view my photos
Oct 7, 2007 | 11:50 AM

"...squawk squawk there would be no out cry against it !"

I'm not against E85. I don't really want it though. Can solar replace gas? Yes. I have done the math. Will it be easy? No. Will we have to make some sacrifices to make it happen? Yes.


"Just watch and see if Hitlary Clintoon gets in and if Demonrats have not completely forgotten all about the “environment”..."

If we let them forget it they will, dems or reps.


E85 could be a great part of a plan, but to use it as a replacement for gas would just be going from one bad habit to another. We can use plant waste for cattle feed, gas, etc, but there is no way we can replace the amount of gas and oil we use with it. A big part of the plan will be learning to use less energy.

northton read my blog view my photos
Oct 7, 2007 | 12:13 PM

May I remind you that even oil cannot replace oil at the rate we use it. Whether we can replace what we have is of no consequence in deciding on how to proceed.

jfore read my blog
Oct 7, 2007 | 5:29 PM

Nothton: Remember, solar doesn't work at night or on cloudy days.

Plant waste is plant waste because it's not suitable for cattle feed or they'd be using it now! And most plant waste is not suitable for alcohol production. That's why it's WASTE.

Why should we use less energy? Energy is what powers our economy. It's also what makes our life easier and more comfortable. I'll bet you haven't turned off your air conditioner or started walking to work to save energy. After all, Al Gore still flies in private jets. So why should you sacrifice for the sake of the planet?

The current oil supply will last for hundreds of years and who knows what's out there that we haven't found yet. I vote for nuclear energy and finding ways to make oil and coal cleaner to use.

northton read my blog view my photos
Oct 7, 2007 | 7:28 PM

Very astute observation, J. You are as smart as ever.

Meb452m read my blog
Oct 7, 2007 | 8:26 PM

Sugarcane verses corn for alcohol? There was an inventer/invester seeking permission to import a South American plant that fruits with a berry, which when pressed produces a high grade light oil. Unfortunately I forgot the both the man's and the plant's name. I do recall the man stating that per acre this imported species gave about 4 times the yield of corn for a combustionable. A pilot program is suppossed to start soon. Anyone hear of this ?

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jfore

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Member Since: 11/1/2006