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by jpbikerfreak from Overland Park, KS

Last Post 1 day, 8 hours Ago


With a headline that shocking, I knew I'd draw attention. But it's true. Things do cost money. Why, you ask, do I have to prove myself to be a master of the obvious by making this statement? Well it's because my friends on the left don't seem to understand it.

When the subject of universal healthcare and other forms of welfare come up, the left likes to put on a parade of individuals who didn't receive adequate care, and then use that as justification for their cause. "How could you turn your back on this person?" they ask.

They then decide they have the moral high ground, and demand that everyone have access to healthcare. Sounds great, right? Unfortunately it's not reality now, nor will it ever be. The reasons are simple. THINGS COST MONEY.

Ask those on the left who advocate this policy how much they have donated to the individuals they're pardading around. Often, they say they don't have any money to donate. Even the Ted Kennedys and John Edwards of the world, who ARE filthy rich, don't donate all of their money to welfare.  They just pass laws saying YOU will. So, the next question is, who will donate it?

The answer is usually THE RICH. So, the poor are going to demand that the rich pay up (even more than they already do - the top 15% of the income earners pays about 60% of the taxes, conservatively). Or worse yet, BIG CORPORATIONS (Exxon pays 49% income tax, how much do YOU pay?) So then we demand our politicians pass laws taking money from these groups. Some of us just figure if you pass a law, money appears from nowwhere. Well I guess in fairness, it does with the government's involvement. That's option 3 - we borrow it from our grandkids.

Once the law is passed, the IRS enforces it with their private army, the ATF. The ATF will show up at the Rich's door, and our grandkids' door, and take their belongings at gunpoint if they don't pay. Why does this remind me of Robin Hood? Oh, ya, because it's theft, that's why.

But let's just say we take all the money from the rich and we continue to borrow, taking from our grandkids, until nobody will buy our debt paper anymore. Then there is no more money. Then what?

Medicaire is already going broke. Beginning this year, it is paying out more than it is taking in. We as a nation carry the most debt of any country in the history of the world. So when the rich are gone, and the debt crushes those of us left, what will happen?

Everyone will still have money, and everyone will still have a health care card. They'll just have to wait in line until they die to get treated, and their money will be as worthless as monopoly money.

But they'll have that card, and they'll have that entitlement.  And we can all rest easy knowing we care.

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jstol3 read my blog
Jun 2, 2008 | 5:24 PM

jp -

They do understand that things cost money - they just want it to be someone else's. They want to attach your's and mine to accomplish their goals.

The biggest problem I have with Medicare and Social Security is that I have been paying into both for quite a while and probably won't be able to get what I've been told should be coming to me.

I quit AARP over their stance against personalized retirement accounts. Back when I was a student in college I calculated that we could all retire as millionaires if we had the ability to invest that money wisely instead of having it thrown into a "slush fund". I could never get anyone to listen.

My idea was that a fund that large could probably get a fund manager to guarantee 10% per annum. Compounded over a worker's lifetime that would have resulted in a nice retirement. I used whatever the withholding figure was back in 1971. A similar scenario could have been worked out for Medicare.

The other problem with the Social Security fund is that the funds have frequently been used for other purposes and there are a lot of IOUs in the fund that won't ever be repaid.

BeStrong read my blog view my photos
Jun 2, 2008 | 5:58 PM

I do not advocate socialized (sp) medicine, however what is your stance when an individual does have insurance and denied life-saving coverage? Or a child that does not have insurance? It is not the chold's fault. Or the elderly that choose between eating and saving medicine?

Now the money- 97% of taxes are paid by the top 50% earners. to be in the top 50% you have to make 30,000 a year. if your single thats not bad. to be in the top 25% you have to make around 70,000. 1% is 325,000... approximately. so using these figures 97% of the bloggers here are in the top 50 and so on. If you make say 50,000 a year and loose your job, how many are going to beable to pay for needed prescriptions for a prolonged period?

I don't care who you are but if you or a loved one are ever faced with being denied life saving treatment based on your ability to pay, your going be pi$$ed at those who say "tuff BLEEP said the kitty when the milk went dry."

linecrosser read my blog
Jun 2, 2008 | 7:24 PM

There are certain things that should not be in private hands. Instead of medicine in the rational, change it to water, do you think that providing water should be in private hands, it is sort of essential to life, in private hands, everyone would be at the mercy of whoever the local water baron might be. While there is fraud in medicare and medicaid there is just as much, if not more in private insurance. Medical delivery is one of the few if not the only area where the government is more efficient than private insurance. The VA while it gets criticized for all of its short comings has the best computerized system in the world. And all of the countries that provide social medicine use the VA's program. If it had the physical buildings, equipment and personnel it would put the private sector to shame. The VA program is Shareware any hospital in America could use it if they wanted to become more efficient. As for the wealthy paying a higher percentage than lower income folks, well then tell them to stop making so much money, which they have been able to do because they live in a society that permitted them to do so. And without trying to sound prejudice or lumping them all together, they might have boughten a politicians or two to get a business law, or zoning passed to favor them while giving the shaft to the less fortunate.

jpbikerfreak read my blog view my photos
Jun 2, 2008 | 8:37 PM

jstol- agreed.

BeStrong- the question is, what are YOU going to do?

It's not just health care. People are actually STARVING TO DEATH on this planet. What are we going to do? Don't tell me you're just going to stand there and watch them starve?

You see my point? The question isn't whether or not a person cares, the question is, what's the best solution?

linecrosser - water barons? I can tell you a great story about a certain world government that WAS the water baron. The rulers refused to fix the water supply because they wanted the money to themselves. So the people got sick.

Soceity PERMITTED them to make money? It's a God given RIGHT. What you mean is society [temporarily] declined to steal it from them I think?

jstol3 read my blog
Jun 2, 2008 | 9:23 PM

BeStrong -

I think that I could argue with your figures. I don't believe that people earning 30 or 40 or even 50k per year are in the top 50%. I think its higher than that.

I agree with linecrosser's assessment of the VA. I am a VA patient and I think they do pretty well.

BeStrong - all policies have limits. You agree to the limits when you buy the policy. You are right - it's not the child's fault. I feel sorry for uncovered children. What should we do? My step-daughter's son was born with a condition - his colon doesn't work. He has had a colostomy, a reversal and a colostomy again. He would have died were it not for Medicaid. I love him. He is a joy to be around. I have shed many tears while he went thru his surgeries. Can we afford to save every one? Probably not. My step-daughter is lazy, belligerant, mouthy, not good employee material. If she had a job and insurance it probably would have quit after the first or second surgery.

What do we do?

jstol3 read my blog
Jun 2, 2008 | 9:28 PM

Right now the child is living with my ex - his grandmother but she dares not attempt to go for legal custody because of the mother's deficiencies because that might rob the child of his benefits.

This issue needs to be resolvedbut how do we do it? A national health insurance group might work except for all of the freeloaders who won't work to support it.

Where is the answer?

Searchingtoo read my blog view my photos
Jun 2, 2008 | 9:44 PM

Free loaders include legal citizens, those gay marriages that all you PC people are so fond of that you want to spout you acceptance crap so you can sound.. well let's just call it sounding your crap... What do you think will happen to your insurance and and your companies insurance rates when every disease ridden portion of the gay population that acts on every "animalistic urge" that comes their way suddenly can get "married" and their disease ridden "spouse" that conviently needed a spouse for cheap insurance are suddently in the same underwriting category as your wife and kids... do younthink the price for you liberal.. let's except everything attitude will hold up then?

Searchingtoo read my blog view my photos
Jun 2, 2008 | 9:46 PM

Sound off all you want, I have already copied this comment for later... I told you so reference.

linecrosser read my blog
Jun 2, 2008 | 11:17 PM

jp, Privatization of the infrastructure has been determined to be one of the leading causes of the fall of Rome. I can see a large corp. like GE, IBM, Disney, buying the interstate beltway around where I live, they put up toll booths to recoup their investment, neglect maintenance, while taking tax breaks for depreciation, then dumping it when its no longer profitable because the lawsuits started coming.
Governments and power hungry people have always used food and water as weapons, I doubt the corp world, would do any better, even in this free capitalist system, the rich have used the system to take advantage of loop holes written into laws to provide the least, for the highest price. So yeah, let them pay higher taxes. They'll just add it to the price. right. I can't help feed or aid any hungry or sick people if I'm sick and hungry myself. A God given right to make money, ask the employees in the countries where all of our jobs have gone. And that statement just sounds strange coming from someone who denounces religion and spirituality in general. I may have stated poorly, so I'll try again, someone who starts from a humble station in life, gets an educations or not, works hard manages to do good in business, or art, science, sports, investing, inventing or whatever makes a fortune, they were able to do so because of this society that, afforded them the opportunity to earn enough to be considered wealthy. Paying a higher percentage of your income to taxes, should be considered a privilege not an opportunity to bank offshore and hide your worth. But I guess that why ov

linecrosser read my blog
Jun 2, 2008 | 11:35 PM

I hate when that happens, I was saying, that 90% of the giving to charity is done by the lowest 25% of wage earners. We just think different, that's okay.

BeStrong read my blog view my photos
Jun 3, 2008 | 7:09 AM

The most recent data show that an income of $30,881 or more puts you in the top half of the class. Earning about twice that much -- $62,068 -- earns you a spot among the top 25% of all wage earners. You crack the elite top 10% if you earn more than $103,912.

And $364,657 buys top bragging rights: Earn that much or more and you're among the top 1% of all American earners. Together, the top 1% earn a full 21% of the income reported to the IRS -- far more than the 13% of total income reported by the bottom 50% of earners.

Jp- What am I going to do? I can not give a definitive answer. I admit I am not smart enough to figure that out as not many politicians are either. We all whine about how its our money and want to deny Americans, but why don't we get angry when our government sends billions in aid to other countries. All while the people here are starving, dieing, and loosing basic needs. Some people do abuse our system, however it is the people who either have inadiquate coverage, loose their job, those who have worked their whole life, and children who were born into poverty by no fault of their own... who I believe deserve the help of their fellow Americans. In the ecomony today, we never know when our job may be lost and it is you facing death due to a bankrupt system.

Playing a devils advocate for a moment.... looking at foriegn policy to use here in America is something a conservative strongly disagrees with. As there is a law that does prevent the Supreme Court from ruling looking at foriegn policy. So since this is blame the left issue, lets not bring in fo

BeStrong read my blog view my photos
Jun 3, 2008 | 7:16 AM

foriegn policy into this debate.

jp- I am not saying you are conservative but you did bring in the liberal blame game. I respect your opinion, I feel differntly thats all. There are two issues I fall in the liberal catagory... which is the right to marry who you want and the right to adequate health care. Abortion I am undecided. Partial and live birth I do strongly oppose.

jpbikerfreak read my blog view my photos
Jun 3, 2008 | 7:26 AM

BeStrong, as you can see from my bio I'm not liberal or conservative. I'm a classic liberal, or libertarian. It means I advocate both social and economic freedom, not just one or the other.

Well, since you admit you don't know what to do, you're saying someone else should do something? And what is that something?

Searching- I must admit you've found a creative way to weave your hatred of homosexuals and bigotry into this thread!

BeStrong read my blog view my photos
Jun 3, 2008 | 7:47 AM

So what is your solution? And I stated I know you are not conservative. But you did come pretty at the liberal view.

My solution would be to quit giving billions in aid to other countries. Look at the outragous insurance doctors have to have to cover their a$$. Keep it here for the millions who have worked and the children. I would fall into the non working as I stay at home to raise my child. So I personally would be excluded. I have never used the system but would hope if my baby was in need of a life saving treatment and I could not financially afford it... she would recieve it. Guess if it came down to it, I could commit a felony go to jail have my daughter placed in foster care... then the governmant would help.

jpbikerfreak read my blog view my photos
Jun 3, 2008 | 11:57 AM

My solution?

Well, we will never have a utopian society. That's the first thing we need to get out of the way. We'll always have the poor. Just a fact of life.

Next we need to realize that government is the cause of the problem, not the solution. The FDA is the single biggest road block to people getting timely and affordable treatment. This is a government problem.

Allow free trade with other countries. Let us buy our meds from Canada, Mexico, or anywhere else we can get them. We're getting raped because of our protectionist policies. Again, a government problem.

Enact tort reform. Cap the punative damages that can be awarded in lawsuits. Malpractice insurance is costing us a fortune. Another government problem.

Break the monopoly that doctors have in the medical industry. Allow them to practice alternative medicines and traditional both at the same time (now a felony). this would SIGNIFICANTLY drive down the cost of healthcare. I personally know a doctor who proved it, and went to prison for his work. Again, a government problem.

How's that for a start?

gimini210 read my blog view my photos
Jun 3, 2008 | 12:25 PM

We can not save the world, we can try to save the small part we live in. The problem is the U.S. has tried to save the world and we have only gone into debt. Universal health care does not work. It doesn't in canada and it doesn't anywhere else. People die waiting to get treatment with Universal care where we have the chance to go to a doctor alot faster. Then you have the medical field, how many doctors will there be when the government says you will charge this or that? And why should a doctor go threw all those years of school to have the government tell them how to run their business? Next it will be every business being told what to charge and ran by the government. More rights goen. Think it threw, who will pay for all this? YOU who work not the bums and the government but YOU.

BeStrong read my blog view my photos
Jun 3, 2008 | 2:02 PM

I hate to think people die because they are unable to get adequate health care. I feel it it the same as murder. Death by denial. I guess it is a subject I can further research and do more than just donate money.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss and this is one subject that really gets to me emotionally.

jp- a true yellow... lol

Searchingtoo read my blog view my photos
Jun 3, 2008 | 9:16 PM

1. dont hate homosexuals hate the sin that we are all supposed to accept as "natural"
2. Bigot? why because we are no where near the same opinion on the subject.
3. So guess your dreams are to whatch your son go down the aisle with a hunk name Steve? Yeah I know it is ok and natural, and you will love him anyway. but not really a wish for you or yours.
4. It total fits in this blog under the heading of it costs money.

jpbikerfreak read my blog view my photos
Jun 4, 2008 | 7:10 AM

Yes I believe you hate homosexuals searching. Yes I blieve it's bigoted. You have yet to give me any good reason for your hatred of them, nor your opposition of gay marriage. They're not hurting you in any way. They're not hurting anyone. Yes they go against a portion of the bible you've selected to believe in (we've established the fact that you don't believe the entire bible, just what you choose. You chose this to support your hatred of them).

My dream is for my son to live his life as a free man some day. If he is or was gay, I'd love him just the same. It just doesn't threaten me I guess.

Searchingtoo read my blog view my photos
Jun 5, 2008 | 11:26 AM

But you really dont WANT it to be that way...

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jpbikerfreak

Biker, Libertarian, Hunter, Free Thinker and Philosopher.

Member Since: 2/20/2008